[Senate Hearing 107-435]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 107-435
NOMINATION HEARING FOR WILLIAM T. HAWKS AND ERIC M. BOST
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
MAY 16, 2001
__________
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.agriculture.senate.gov
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COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY
RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana, Chairman
JESSE HELMS, North Carolina TOM HARKIN, Iowa
THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont
MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky KENT CONRAD, North Dakota
PAT ROBERTS, Kansas THOMAS A. DASCHLE, South Dakota
PETER G. FITZGERALD, Illinois MAX BAUCUS, Montana
CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, Arkansas
WAYNE ALLARD, Colorado ZELL MILLER, Georgia
TIM HUTCHINSON, Arkansas DEBBIE A. STABENOW, Michigan
MICHEAL D. CRAPO, Idaho BEN NELSON, Nebraska
MARK DAYTON, Minnesota
Keith Luse, Staff Director
David L. Johnson, Chief Counsel
Robert E. Sturm, Chief Clerk
Mark Halverson, Staff Director for the Minority
(ii)
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing(s):
Nomination Hearing for William T. Hawks and Eric M. Bost......... 01
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Wednesday, May 16, 2001
STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS
Lugar, Hon. Richard G., a U.S. Senator from Indiana, Chairman,
Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry.............. 01
Cochran, Hon. Thad, a U.S. Senator from Mississippi.............. 05
Thomas, Hon. Craig, a U.S. Senator from Wyoming.................. 02
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WITNESSES
Bost, Eric M., of Austin, Texas, to be Under Secretary for Food,
Nutrition, and Consumer Services, U.S. Department of
Agriculture.................................................... 04
Hawks, William T., of Hernando, Mississippi, to Under Secretary
for
Marketing and Regulatory Programs, U.S. Department of
Agriculture.................................................... 03
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APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Bost, Eric M................................................. 27
Hawks, William T............................................. 24
Document(s) Submitted for the Record:
Bost, Eric M., Biography..................................... 53
Hawks, William T., Biography................................. 34
Questions and Answers:
Harkin, Hon. Tom............................................. 74
Conrad, Hon. Kent............................................ 76
Dayton, Hon. Mark............................................ 77
Baucus, Hon. Max............................................. 84
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NOMINATION HEARING: WILLIAM T. HAWKS AND ERIC BOST
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WEDNESDAY, MAY 16, 2001
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:03 a.m., in
room SR-328A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard G.
Lugar,
[Chairman of the Committee], presiding.
Present or submitting a statement: Senators Lugar, Cochran,
Thomas, Hutchinson, Harkin, Conrad, and Stabenow.
STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD G. LUGAR, A U.S. SENATOR FROM
INDIANA, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND
FORESTRY
The Chairman. This meeting of the Senate Agriculture
Committee is called to order.
This morning, it is our privilege to consider the
nominations of Mr. William Hawks for Under Secretary of
Marketing and Regulatory Programs at the United States
Department of Agriculture, and Mr. Eric Bost, for Under
Secretary of Food, Nutrition, and Consumer Services at USDA.
Our committee continues its commitment to consider
nominations of the administration in a timely manner, and we
look forward to hearing from these qualified individuals before
us today, hearing their testimony and raising questions of
them.
We will then turn to hear testimony regarding the state of
agricultural credit in the United States, one of the chapters
of the Farm bill that we are considering. The committee will
explore whether changes in the 1996 Farm bill and elsewhere
have improved the financial health of this sector and whether
additional changes are necessary in the upcoming Farm bill.
Credit, as we would all agree, is the life blood of
farming, providing the necessary capital for land purchases,
farming operations, and for emergency loans when disaster
strikes. In surrounding towns and communities, credit serves as
the primary vehicle for investments in job-producing
businesses. Rural communities rely heavily on adequate sources
of credit in order to survive and prosper.
Today our committee reviews its commitment of ensuring that
creditworthy farmers and others living in rural America have
abundant and competitive sources of credit available.
Today's total farm debt in the United States stands at
around $182 billion. Commercial banks remain the largest
agricultural lender with 41 percent of the market share, having
overtaken the Farm Credit System in 1987. Nevertheless, the
Farm Credit System remains a healthy competitor, holding a
consistent 26 percent of the Nation's total farm debt. With its
guaranteed, direct, and emergency loan programs, the role of
the United States Department of Agriculture is critical,
especially for those farmers on the margins financially.
We will hear testimony from all three of these groups to
determine whether there are trends or danger signs that we
should be aware of that could harm agricultural lending, and if
so, what preventive steps can be taken to ensure that rural
lending remains vibrant and financially sound.
Our first panel will consist of two witnesses from the
Department of Agriculture, and I will introduce them when we
come to that portion of our hearing, but for now, we welcome
immediately our guests and our distinguished nominees.
First of all, before I call upon them, I will ask Senator
Thomas if he has an opening comment or statement about the
nominees or our credit hearing this morning.
STATEMENT OF HON. CRAIG THOMAS, A U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING
Senator Thomas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am anxious to hear from the nominees, and I am glad to be
here. I am going to have a leave a little later, but just a
comment or two on the credit hearing.
I think it is very important to have that hearing. The Farm
Credit System seems to be pretty healthy right now in terms of
repayments and all those things, and I wonder how much that is
dependent on the kinds of payments that were made during the
last year in Federal money in order to keep that happening. In
other words, how would the Farm Credit System be doing if we
were not paying out these payments again or had a different
kind of farm program? I think that is an interesting question.
Then, I am always interested in what people believe the
role of farm credit is vis-a-vis the private sector. Are they
out there to do it for less? Are they out there to be
competitive? Are they out there to serve people who do not
otherwise have an opportunity in the private sector?
So these are some broad questions, Mr. Chairman, that I am
anxious to hear about.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Thomas. We
appreciate your attendance, and likewise, any questions that
you wish to raise in writing, the witnesses will be asked to
consider.
Senator Thomas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. At this point, would you both please stand
and raise your right hand?
Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you, God?
Mr. Hawks. Yes.
Mr. Bost. Yes.
The Chairman. Thank you for that affirmation.
It is a privilege to have both of you before the committee.
First of all let me ask whether members of your family or
others who are important to you have accompanied you.
Mr. Hawks.
Mr. Hawks. Yes, Senator, I certainly do. I have my wife,
Diane; my daughter, Jennifer; and our son, T.A., with me today.
The Chairman. We welcome each of you to this important
moment.
Mr. Bost, do you have anyone with you today?
Mr. Bost. Yes, Mr. Chairman. My wife Rose Mary is with me
today.
The Chairman. It is very good to have you here today; we
appreciate your coming.
First of all, I am going to ask each of you to offer
testimony that may be helpful in our understanding of who you
are and your objectives; then, following your testimony, I will
raise questions as will other Senators as they appear.
Mr. Hawks.
STATEMENT OF WILLIAM T. HAWKS, OF HERNANDO,
MISSISSIPPI, TO BE UNDER SECRETARY FOR MARKETING AND REGULATORY
PROGRAMS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
AGRICULTURE
Mr. Hawks. Thank you, Chairman Lugar, members of the
committee.
I am honored to be here today as the nominee for Under
Secretary of Agriculture for Marketing and Regulatory Programs.
I would like to thank President George W. Bush for nominating
me for this position of public service.
I would also like to thank Senator Thad Cochran and
Majority Leader Trent Lott for supporting my nomination. I
would like to extend special appreciation to my wife, Diane,
for all of her assistance throughout this nomination process.
I was born on a dairy and row crop farm in northern
Mississippi. I worked my way through college, receiving a
master's degree in agricultural economics from Mississippi
State University. I returned home in 1970 to serve in the Army
Reserve and to start my family farm. In the past, I have spent
many long hours milking dairy cows, growing cotton, corn,
wheat, soybeans, and vegetables. During adverse times, I did
custom harvesting to supplement my farm income. So you can see
that I have experienced both the good and the bad in farming.
While operating our farm, I took the time to participate in
farm committees. I served for a number of years as chairman of
the local FSA committee, as a commissioner on the Soil and
Water Conservation District. It was through my involvement in
these committees that I learned the very important workings of
USDA agencies.
I was actively engaged in numerous farm organizations and
commodity organizations, and if confirmed, I will utilize the
skills that I have learned in these organizations to uphold the
high standards of USDA.
Most recently, I have served the people of Mississippi in
the Mississippi State Senate. While in the Mississippi Senate,
I served on both the Agriculture Committee and the
Environmental Committee. If confirmed, my knowledge of the
legislative process will be beneficial as USDA deals with and
interacts with the Congress and other interested parties.
The United States Department of Agriculture serves as an
advocate for rural America, and especially to production
agriculture. If confirmed, I pledge to work with members of
this committee and their staff, as well as leaders in the
agriculture community. I am confident that my educational and
professional experiences have prepared me for this position at
USDA.
Mr. Chairman, with that, I look forward to answering any
questions that you or members of this committee may have.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Hawks.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Hawks can be found in the
appendix on page 24.]
The Chairman. Mr. Bost.
TESTIMONY OF ERIC M. BOST, OF AUSTIN, TEXAS, TO BE UNDER
SECRETARY FOR FOOD, NUTRITION, AND
CONSUMER SERVICES, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
Mr. Bost. Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members
of the committee.
I am Eric M. Bost. I am honored to appear before the
committee today as President Bush's nominee for the position of
Under Secretary for Food, Nutrition, and Consumer Services in
the United States Department of Agriculture. I thank the
President and Secretary Veneman for their support and trust in
nominating me for this position.
I would also like to take a minute to thank my wife for her
unwavering support in this process.
I also wish to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the unwavering
leadership that you and this committee have given to our food
and nutrition assistance programs over the years. I look
forward to working with a committee that has always been
committed to helping America's children, families, and the
elderly.
I have provided written testimony for the committee's
consideration, and I will try to keep my remarks brief.
Mr. Chairman, I believe that I am ready to take on this
important and challenging position. I am clear on the
responsibility I would assume. The 15 programs administered by
Food, Nutrition, and Consumer Services touch one in every five
Americans. They are essential in fighting hunger and improving
nutrition for children and low-income Americans. This is a very
humbling opportunity, but one for which I have prepared.
For more than 20 years, my career has been devoted to the
management of human services agencies and the people served by
those agencies. In August 1997, then Governor George W. Bush
appointed me Commissioner of the Texas Department of Human
Services, one of the Nation's largest human services agencies,
overseeing the administration of State and Federal programs,
including food stamps, special nutrition programs for more than
2 million needy, aged, and disabled Texans each month.
My Texas experience includes implementation of a
significant food stamp outreach and nutrition program; enhanced
Federal funds for three years in a row because of our high
accuracy rate in determining food stamp benefits; recognition
of our Texas EBT system by the General Accounting Office as a
national leader in detecting fraud in the food stamp program by
using EBT transaction data; implementation of the second
generation of the EBT system using a pioneer multi-vendor
approach.
From the very beginning, my goal was to make the Texas
Department of Human Services the premier human services agency
in the country. I am very proud of the staff. If confirmed, I
plan to set the same goal for Food, Nutrition, and Consumer
Services.
Mr. Chairman, I believe that an agency like FNCS needs to
focus on customer service in all areas, including improving
access to services, fostering community involvement, developing
innovative ways to provide services, ensuring accuracy in
providing services, and improving services through automation.
It is my intent, if confirmed, to work hard on establishing and
strengthening these efforts.
In closing, I want to say that I rely on the dedication and
professionalism of my employees for effective service deliver.
I understand that the employees of the agency are among the
best in the Federal Government, and I look forward to the
support of their expertise and assistance. I also look forward
to working with this committee and all Members of Congress in
achieving what is best for those we serve.
I commit to you today that if confirmed, I will be an
administrator who will be available to you and your staff; will
answer your questions thoroughly and straightforwardly, even
when the answer is difficult; and will ensure that you will be
informed in a manner which allows you to make the best possible
decisions for the citizens of our great country.
Mr. Chairman, that concludes my testimony. I will be happy
to answer any questions that you or other members of the
committee may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bost can be found in the
appendix on page 27.]
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Bost.
Let me make two comments for the record. First, the full
statements that both of you have prepared will be made a part
of the record in full, in addition to your oral testimony this
morning; and second, that the FBI has made available to me its
reports, and I have read them carefully. I simply note that
because it is the responsibility of the chairman and ranking
member to receive those reports and take them into
consideration as we conduct the hearings.
We have been joined by three more distinguished Senators.
Let me first call upon the Senator from Mississippi, because I
suspect he will have a comment; a very nice comment has already
been made about him.
Senator Cochran.
STATEMENT OF HON. THAD COCHRAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM MISSISSIPPI
Senator Cochran. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am pleased to be here this morning to welcome my good
friend and fellow Mississippian, Bill Hawks, and Mr. Bost as
well. I think we are very fortunate to have the Secretary of
Agriculture and the administration selecting such outstanding
people to serve in this administration, particularly at the
Department of Agriculture. I think the operation and
administration of that department is going to be in very good
hands indeed.
I have known Bill Hawks, for example, for a long time. He
has been a leader in our State not only in agriculture, where
he served on the State Farm Service Agency Committee, and at
the local level in positions of responsibility, but also in our
State government as a very well-respected member of our State
Senate. He was a leader there, and he is looked to for
leadership in our State on a wide range of issues and subjects.
He is very well-respected. He was an outstanding student at
Mississippi State University where he earned bachelor's and
master's degrees. He has taken an active role in the political
life of our State and our Nation. He has been a leader of farm
groups in Presidential election campaigns. He is someone who is
very civic-minded and gives a lot of his time and effort to
helping make our State a better place to live and the country
as well.
I think we are fortunate to have Bill Hawks serving in this
position. I am confident that he will be well-received by our
committee because of his experience and his good judgment and
his past performance in everything he has ever undertaken.
On top of all that, he is a farmer, and he really knows
what he is going to be doing. He knows something about the
subject from first-hand experience. He and his wife, Diane, who
is an active partner in the farming operation, have several
thousand acres of land that they farm in DeSoto County,
Mississippi, just south of Memphis, and they have been very
successful. Even when times are tough, Bill figures out a way
to manage--kind of like our chairman. You all can talk to each
other and help explain it to everybody else, I guess.
[Laughter.]
It is a pleasure for me, Mr. Chairman, to welcome Bill, and
I wish him well in this new undertaking.
The Chairman. Indeed, I have visited with Mr. Hawks, and
his holdings are several multiples of my own; but nevertheless,
we shared some experiences together.
Thank you very much, Senator Cochran.
Senator Conrad.
Senator Conrad. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We want to welcome the nominees here today.
I just have one question for Mr. Hawks--have you supported
Senator Cochran?
[Laughter.]
Mr. Hawks. Senator, I think that should be intuitively
obvious. I know a leader when I see one.
[Laughter.]
Senator Conrad. Well, that does raise some serious
questions.
[Laughter.]
Senator Conrad. We are pleased to have both of you here.
The Chairman. Senator Hutchinson, do you have an opening
comment?
Senator Hutchinson. No, Mr. Chairman. I have looked at both
of our nominees' backgrounds. They are very impressive
individuals. I am delighted, even though neither of them is
from Arkansas, Texas and Mississippi get close, and DeSoto
County gets real close. So we are delighted to welcome them
today.
The Chairman. Very well.
Let me commence the questioning, and we will question both
witnesses in this particular round, whichever is your
preference, or both.
Mr. Hawks, let me ask first of all a question we ask of
each of our nominees. Do you agree that you will appear before
any duly constituted committee of Congress if asked to appear?
Mr. Hawks. Yes, sir, I will.
The Chairman. I thank you for that affirmative response.
As has been pointed out, you have a very successful record
as a farmer and businessman and public servant in Mississippi.
Can you describe to the committee the steps that you have taken
or intend to take to ensure that there will be no conflicts of
interest or appearances of impropriety?
Mr. Hawks. Yes, I would be delighted to, Mr. Chairman.
We have, in conjunction with the attorneys and the
accountants--as you well know, it can be a little complex--but
if confirmed, we will be divesting ourselves of all interest in
the farming operation. We farm with three corporations; it is
owned currently by myself, my wife, and my two grown children
here. All of those will be going to our grown children; I just
hope they can keep the farm alive, and I am confident that they
will. I will be drawing a cash rent that is commensurate with
other cash rents in the area, to be certain that there is no
conflict associated with my service in this administration.
The Chairman. I appreciate that public response. This is a
part of the record that has been submitted. As all of us know,
the financial forms and obligations are tremendous for our
nominees. I appreciate your explaining that in detail. For
anybody in farming, it is a wrenching experience. The word
``divest'' means, as you say, giving this farm to your
children. I appreciate your response.
Mr. Hawks. Thank you.
The Chairman. Let me say that this committee has spent a
lot of time crafting legislation to provide livestock mandatory
price reporting. Most of us on this committee, including the
chairman, strongly supported that legislation.
The Department of Agriculture's Agricultural Marketing
Services has been in the process for some time of implementing
this and refining the law, and the program began on April 2. As
is often the case with a new program, there are criticisms and
difficulties.
Are you aware of the program, and can you make a comment as
to how we can get on track in a steady way here?
Mr. Hawks. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I have had the opportunity,
because this is obviously of major interest to all of
production agriculture, particularly the Midwest and Western
States, and I certainly appreciate that. The Congress saw fit
to implement mandatory price reporting, and it is my goal as
Under Secretary for Marketing and Regulatory Programs to see
that it works. I would like to go a little bit further on that
and say that it is my understanding that this report is
attempting to deliver 91 reports a day, some 40 more reports
than have ever been reported under the voluntary system.
I will make a commitment to you and members of this
committee today that it is my intent to fix the mandatory price
reporting system.
The Chairman. Well, this is good news, and as you can
anticipate, we will be calling upon you for reports on your
progress, because this is of great urgency to our livestock
people.
Mr. Hawks. In fixing this process, I would like to have
interaction with members of this committee as we go forward.
The Chairman. That would be very helpful.
One of the responsibilities that you will inherit right
away is the problems of the Animal and Plant Health and
Inspection Services, APHIS. That has been a prominent agency
given these violent and difficult diseases that have afflicted
livestock throughout the world and which we are trying to stave
off here, namely, foot and mouth disease.
Have you studied the APHIS situation, and are you confident
that all is being done that can be done, and have you have
worked with the Secretary and understood her strategy?
Mr. Hawks. Yes, Senator, I have. I have had the opportunity
to look at that also. As you are probably familiar, the
Secretary brought in a leading veterinarian early on in this
new administration to help with that. Dr. Brightmeyer from
California came in to lead that effort early on, and he is back
in California and is still on a consulting basis with APHIS in
that process.
It is my belief that, of course, the Secretary is
committed, and I understand the budget has an increase for the
number of inspectors at ports around the country, I believe
some 350 additional inspectors, to exclude the foot and mouth
disease and BSE.
I think that efforts are being made, but I also think that
there are some plans being made in the event we should have
that unfortunate event to enter this country. There is being
looked at the compensation package, the response package. So
there is a lot of effort going into that, but my first effort
and APHIS' first effort will be to keep it out of this country.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Mr. Bost, let me ask you the question I asked originally of
Mr. Hawks. Do you agree that you will appear before any duly
constituted committee of Congress if asked to appear?
Mr. Bost. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I thank you for that affirmative response.
One of the major responsibilities of the committee will be
the reauthorization of the food stamp program. Can you give us
any early indications from your experience in Texas in
particular, where you have had comprehensive program
administration, of what recommendations you may make, or any
other comments as you have studied that in preparation for this
hearing?
Mr. Bost. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for asking that
question. This is a very, very important program affecting the
lives of about 1.2 million people in Texas, and nationally,
about 17 million people.
Our approach in Texas and my approach in Texas has been to
receive input from advocates, from providers, and also from
consumers in terms of what we can do to make this program much
more efficient, improve access, and improve service delivery.
In my discussions with the Secretary, essentially, those
are things that we hope to carry forward. At this point, the
administration has not taken a position in terms of developing
the process. I know that we are working on the process, but no
final decision has been made in terms of what that process will
look like. But believe me, it is my position, and I believe it
is the Secretary's, that we will be very inclusive in terms of
getting input to strengthen and improve this program, which is
a very important program.
The Chairman. I will have additional questions for you and
Mr. Hawks on the second round, but I want to engage the rest of
my colleagues now in this process.
Senator Cochran.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Chairman, thank you.
I was going to ask about the BSE and the foot and mouth
disease problem, and get your reaction to the steps and whether
they are being taken aggressively in this administration, and
if you can assure the committee that everything will be done
that can be done to help protect this very important industry
in our country.
Mr. Hawks. Yes, Senator, I fully intend to do that. I do
not know if you have had the opportunity to read the papers
this morning, but there was some German equipment turned back
at the port in Texas because it was not clean. So every effort
is being made, and I intend to maintain that vigilance.
Senator Cochran. Part of the marketing responsibility is to
try to identify ways to increase our exports and sales and grow
the markets that we have in other countries. What do your plans
include? What are your ideas about some of the steps that you
plan to take to increase our opportunities to sell more of what
we produce in overseas markets?
Mr. Hawks. Senator, my particular areas are, of course,
with APHIS, and Marketing and Regulatory, and GPSA. I think
that where my particular agencies are concerned--I have some
broad opinions about other areas, but I will address just those
that will be relevant to mine--are sanitary and phytosanitary
issues, where we will have APHIS people involved to try to
mitigate any concerns and complaints that we have from our
trading partners. I think that the marketing arm that I will
have direct responsibility for will have the opportunity to
help create and work with producers in identifying niche
markets, if you will. I think we have some particular ways that
we can address those concerns in my area, and the Secretary and
this administration are committed to opening those markets up.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Bost, I assume you have
responsibilities in this new job for feeding programs
generally, lunch programs, breakfast programs, in the schools--
does that come under your jurisdiction as well?
Mr. Bost. Yes, Senator.
Senator Cochran. I think those are important programs. We
had a pilot breakfast program in the schools, and I do not know
whether you have had an opportunity in Texas to have had any
experience with that program, but do you know what your
recommendations might be with respect to how we can improve and
strengthen those programs to be sure they are meeting their
goals?
Mr. Bost. Yes, Senator. We have very similar programs in
Texas, and the feedback that I am getting from our sponsors is
that for the most part, it is working very well. The issue that
they constantly talk with me about in Texas is the bureaucratic
requirements that we impose on them to actually implement the
program. If confirmed, that is one of the things that I would
want to look at and further explore in terms of how can we
ensure not only that we are holding our entities accountable,
but concurrently, making it as easy as possible to ensure that
the services are being provided.
I think that is where the issues are, and that would be one
thing that I would look at if I am confirmed in this position.
Senator Cochran. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Cochran.
Senator Thomas.
Senator Thomas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let me just comment a bit on the chairman's first questions
on packers and stockyards. I hope that you will also take a
look at the concentration and ownership of livestock and how it
impacts it.
On APHIS, we are also interested in predator control and
wildlife management. I have a sticker on the back of my car
that says ``Eat Lamb--50,000 Coyotes Can't be Wrong.''
More specifically--and I know this is not easy--as you
enter your job, what would be your highest priority?
Mr. Hawks. Right now, I think anyone looking at this area
would say that foot and mouth disease, BSE, would be the No. 1
priority. We must maintain our vigilance there, we must keep
that out. I will be candid with you--it has been very
overwhelming to go into a situation like this and try to look
at the whole area at one time. We have a lot of issues there--
foot and mouth disease, price reporting, the concentration
issue that I know you are very concerned about--but I would
have to say the foot and mouth disease and BSE would be the No.
1 priority, Senator.
Senator Thomas. I have to leave to go to another hearing,
Mr. Chairman. Thank you so much.
I appreciate having these two gentlemen here.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
Senator Hutchinson.
Senator Hutchinson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be
brief.
Mr. Hawks, you mentioned niche markets. Do you have any
specific ideas on how we can promote those?
Mr. Hawks. Of course, as you know, the organic rules were
created in the 1990 Farm bill, and it took quite a while to get
those rules finally promulgated. I think that that is an
example of a way that we can find niche markets--anything that
I see that we can do, or if any of you have ideas about ways
that we can enhance the value of the products of our
producers--but that is just one example, the organics, working
with them.
The farmers' markets--I understand we have a farmers'
market at USDA. The AMS is involved with the initial concept
and design of farmers' markets throughout the country.
So there are opportunities there.
Senator Hutchinson. Mr. Bost, in your comments, you
mentioned--I think this was on the school lunch and breakfast
programs that Senator Cochran was asking about--that you had
heard complaints about bureaucratic requirements and the need
to provide bureaucratic relief. Do you have specific ideas--or,
particularly on the complaints that you have heard, of what
nature are they, and how do you go about trying to cut some of
that red tape that is unnecessary to provide the accountability
that we all want?
Mr. Bost. Mr. Chairman and Senator, almost all of the
feedback that I have gotten in terms of criticism of our
program is in regard to the overwhelming level of paperwork
that is required. If confirmed, what I would hope to do would
be to look at the requirements that we are asking for and see
if it is possible for us to look at streamlining our requests,
along with ensuring a high level of accountability.
Like I said, all of our sponsors think that the pilot
programs--and I believe the chairman actually passed a law that
has a pilot that will start in Texas this summer, and we have
also seen a significant increase in the number of sponsors
interested in participating in that pilot--but almost all of
the comments that we receive are that the paperwork
requirements are just overwhelming in terms of what we are
asking for. I believe that that is where I would start my
review in terms of looking to see what we can do or, more
importantly, what we can do differently.
Let me provide to you a real specific example of what we
did in another program in Texas. About a year to 18 months ago,
our application process, or the actual application form to
receive food stamps, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families,
and Medicaid was essentially on one form, but it was as long as
18 pages. I brought in a group of clients, consumers, advocacy
organizations, and our staff to look at it and essentially say
there has got to be a better way. Right now, front and back,
that form is down to about five pages. We are getting the same
information, it is easier, it is much more customer-friendly.
I would be interested in looking at a process that would
afford us the opportunity to do that.
Senator Hutchinson. Is any of that kind of reporting being
done electronically, or is it all still paper and forms?
Mr. Bost. I believe it is a combination of both. Here again
is another option for us to look at, becoming much more
automated.
Senator Hutchinson. Well, I endorse those efforts. I hope
that you will. That is usually the complaint that we hear about
not only the Department of Agriculture but across the Federal
Government, that there is too much paperwork involved. I hope
that you will make that a priority and try to provide some
relief there. I think that is a good goal.
To both of you, I would like to pose this question: Do you
anticipate any specific changes that you are going to make,
that you have already thought about, areas where you feel that
you are going to initiate some different policies?
Mr. Hawks.
Mr. Hawks. Senator, it is a little difficult to evaluate--I
have been here in a consulting capacity for about 10 days--but
I would be very candid with you and say that in my past
experiences, there is always an opportunity, after thoroughly
evaluating things, to see ways to streamline them, and like Mr.
Bost, anything that we can do to eliminate some of the
bureaucratic red tape, I will certainly be looking toward that.
Senator Hutchinson. Mr. Bost.
Mr. Bost. Senator, I do not know if I would say anything at
this point specifically that I would want to change, but I am
always in the position of looking at how we can improve our
efficiency in terms of how we do things. At this point, I have
not been here long enough to make a determination of how some
things are done. I am not interested in changing it just for
the sake of changing it; I am only interested in looking at
making some recommendations or possibly changing some things
that we can do better, if they can be improved.
So at this point, it is too premature and too presumptuous,
I believe, at this juncture for me to say anything, because I
do not know enough.
Senator Hutchinson. Those are probably prudent answers.
Thank you. We wish you the best.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hutchinson.
We have been joined by the distinguished ranking member,
Senator Harkin, but I will give him a breathing space of a few
minutes while I commence questions, and then I will ask Senator
Harkin for his opening statement, either on the nominees or the
credit situation and questions thereof, and then we will
complete this portion of our hearing and proceed on to the
credit hearing.
Mr. Hawks, let me ask you about one additional program for
which you have responsibility. We have had an investigation and
then, a fairly large and well-attended hearing about eight USDA
fruit and vegetable inspectors who were arrested for bribery at
the Hunt's Point Terminal produce market in the Bronx, New
York. We have had before the committee a good number of people
explaining what happened there and what is supposed to happen.
Have you had a chance to look into that predicament, and do
you have any comment about it?
Mr. Hawks. Mr. Chairman, I do have a comment about that.
Having looked briefly at what transpired there--and I would say
that it was a very unfortunate situation--I do understand that
there have been some prosecutions and some convictions as they
relate to that incident. I also know that we are improving the
facilities there to train inspectors.
But one thing that I would like to say to this committee is
that I will uphold the highest level of honesty and integrity
in this entire department, administration, where I have any
influence whatsoever. That is my intent.
The Chairman. I appreciate that intent and likewise your
keeping track of this. It seems to be an ongoing investigation
that will probably consume some of your early time.
Mr. Bost, annually, we have oversight hearings on food
stamp administration, and I would say that over the course of
the year, if I can draw any conclusions from that, the waste,
fraud, and abuse question has been addressed, but likewise,
improvements have been made, and sometimes substantial
improvements.
In the State of Texas, you have had an Electronic Benefits
Transfer system which has been recommended for food stamp
programs in all of our States, and likewise, a decreasing
number of violations of any sort, and your quality control
seems to have been excellent, and Texas has been cited for
that.
On both of these situations, can you make a comment as to
the difficulty for a State as large as Texas to adopt the
Electronic Benefits Transfer system. How did you get the error
rate under control and come to an exemplary solution, and what
will these mean for the other 49 States as you come into a
responsibility for this?
Mr. Bost. Mr. Chairman, first of all, let me say that the
staff in the Texas Department of Human Services has done an
outstanding job in terms of implementing both of those
programs. There has been a real commitment on their part to
ensure that we are the premier human services agency in the
country in terms of the implementation of those specific
programs.
In our EBT program, we were among the first in the country
to start in 1995. We are now into our second generation--I just
signed a contract this past February--and we took a little bit
of a different approach where, instead of using one vendor, we
took a multi-vendor approach. It works 99.99 percent of the
time. During the course of the last 18 months, it has only been
down three times, and each of those three times, it was down
because of problems with the telephone companies, not with the
system itself.
I think that our success with that program has been
primarily for two reasons--one, the partnership that we had
with Transactive; and two, the infrastructure. We spent a great
deal of time making sure that the infrastructure would support
what we want to accomplish.
In terms of our accuracy rate, it was one of the things
that I first established as a goal for the department when I
became commissioner in 1997. We had a high error rate hovering
around 12 percent. This last year, our error rate was down to
about 4.14 percent. We received enhanced funding in the amount
of $28.6 million, the most earned by any State in the history
of the food stamp program.
If I have to look for how we were able to accomplish that,
there are several reasons. No. 1, I think there is a real
commitment on the part of the staff. No. 2, I invested a lot of
time and energy in ensuring that we trained our staff. No. 3, I
built in a quality assurance review system to ensure that staff
were following the guidelines that we had established. I also
established call centers. We have call centers around the State
whereby clients are able to call and report changes and do not
necessarily have to come in to the offices. The clients love
that, because it is easy to pick up a telephone and call, as
opposed to in some places, getting on a bus and transferring
with children three or four times and actually coming into an
office.
In addition to that, I had an automated system that was a
part of that process that I also believe has contributed to our
success.
I believe that all of those reasons have contributed to our
success and also contribute to our ability to detect fraud and
abuse early on in our system. The General Accounting Office
essentially cited our program as being one of the leaders in
the country, and that is one thing that I am real proud of,
because it has been my experience in 20 years that they do not
necessarily have too many positive things to say about most
systems; so when they came out and said this, it was something
that made us all feel very, very good about what we were able
to accomplish.
The Chairman. Well, it made the committee feel good, too.
There is nothing more devastating in the food stamp program,
ultimately, than reports such as we have had in hearings that
people have used food stamps as currency in neighborhoods,
often for other purposes.
The Electronic Benefits Transfer Program was designed so
there is an audit trail, and the floating around of this paper
as a substitute currency declines. This leads us to wonder from
time to time why there is a reticence or difficulty in adopting
electronic benefits transfer in other places. The other
dilemma, of course, is that even a very low error rate brings a
number of critics of the program. There are a number of
American taxpayers who ask why is there an error rate--are
people receiving food stamps beyond what they should get, or
are people in fact being cheated of benefits because they are
poor and are not knowledgeable about the situation.
On both counts, there is enormous scrutiny, because the
program has been going on for a long time, as you know. You
cannot administer the program before you are confirmed, but I
just want to underline how important this is in terms of the
integrity of the program, because this committee has strong
support of that safety net for Americans, and we want to make
sure its integrity remains.
Mr. Bost. Mr. Chairman, I would agree with you, and I would
add two additional points. We too have received some criticism
in Texas regarding how well the program works, and one of the
criticisms that I received was that we must not be doing
something in terms of access or that we were not giving people
enough benefits. The way the error rate is computed, it is an
error if you give them too much, but it is also an error if you
do not give them enough. So for us to have one of the lowest in
the country while serving almost 1.2 million people monthly, I
think is a major accomplishment on our part.
The other issue that was also very, very important to me
was this issue that there are people who are eligible for food
stamps who are not receiving them. Well, last year, I kicked
off probably one of the most comprehensive outreach campaigns
in the entire State. I sent staff out throughout the State, and
we made over 80,000 in-person contacts with homeless shelters,
with food banks, the post office, the barbershop--everyplace
where people live and work or are not working--also, I sent out
information to all the daily newspapers, saying that if you
think you are eligible for food stamps, here is an office you
can go to or here is a number that you can call. I tried to
make sure there was that balance in terms of maintaining a high
level of integrity in our program, but also ensuring that if
you thought you were eligible to receive benefits, you would
come into our office to apply for them, or if there were a
large group of people somewhere, like a homeless shelter--
because I heard that, too--I would actually send a staff person
there to take your application on the spot.
So my goal was to ensure that we struck that balance in
terms of increasing access but also maintaining the integrity
of the program; and also, a third component which is very, very
important to me personally is building in some sense of
personal responsibility that people have to go out and get a
job, to work and be able to provide for yourself if you are not
eligible or if you do not meet the requirements to participate
in the program.
The Chairman. Well, I thank you for that additional
response on the advocacy issue, which would have been another
question, what about the outreach.
Mr. Bost. I am sorry, Senator.
The Chairman. I am delighted that you have responded.
Finally, as a part of our hearings, I discovered, as did
other members, that we could use the data from school lunch
applications with State governments to qualify a number of
children for Medicaid, for the SCHIP program. That data was not
being shared; it was sort of a stovepipe situation, which has
some understandable privacy issues. Nevertheless we passed
legislation to make that sharing possible and to make many more
low-income children eligible for the SCHIP program.
Are you aware of that, and did you adopt it in Texas, and
if not, do you have any comment about this issue?
Mr. Bost. Mr. Chairman, I think that that was an excellent
idea in terms of increasing access for children to receive
those medical services in addition to improving their
nutritional lives. The only--``criticism'' is probably too
strong a word--caution, I guess--the only caution that I have
heard about the implementation of this has been about the
sharing of confidential data. Other than that, everyone that I
have talked to around the country has been very, very
supportive of it and has found it to be very useful and very
helpful in terms of ensuring that children are enrolled.
The Chairman. I appreciate that concern. These privacy
concerns are not trivial; they are important. It just appeared
to us in a common sense way that for children of low income who
had already gotten somehow the forms filled out for the school
lunch program, this data might be shared for their health care.
I am hopeful that this common sense will prevail over the need
for a bureaucratic separation and entirely new forms and what-
have-you--and obviously, you are, too, so we are hopeful of
moving ahead.
Mr. Bost. Yes, absolutely. I share your concern.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Harkin.
Senator Harkin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would just ask that my statement be made a part of the
record.
The Chairman. It will be included in full.
Senator Harkin. I want to concur in the statements that the
chairman just made. I support his views entirely on those
matters.
I want to welcome Mr. Bost and Mr. Hawks to the committee.
I have just a couple of issues that I would like to cover with
the two of you, very briefly.
Mr. Bost, a major theme of welfare reform has been to
encourage low-income families to work to reduce their need for
cash assistance--that is all of the welfare-to-work program.
Yet today, extensive verification requirements and requirements
of frequent reapplications make it much harder for working
families to obtain food stamps than for families on cash
assistance.
In the last couple of years, the Department has taken
several important initiatives to reduce the administrative
burdens of low-wage working families who need food stamps to
help their families eat.
Again, as Under Secretary, I would ask if you would explore
further measures that can be taken. I do not think we are at
the best level yet of reducing these burdens, and I hope that
you will take a further look at what we can do to reduce those
administrative burdens.
Mr. Bost. Absolutely, Senator. I would be more than happy
to do that if confirmed.
Senator Harkin. Second, on the school breakfast program, we
are still lagging in getting schools and students into this
program. That has been a keen interest of mine and of a number
of others on this committee as to how we can expand the school
breakfast program. As you know, we have some pilot programs
ongoing right now to expand that program, and I wonder if you
have any thoughts on what steps you might take to support
expansion of the school breakfast program to more schools and
more students, and would that be an area that you would be very
proactive in?
Mr. Bost. Senator, absolutely. Going back to the comment I
made earlier, I think before you arrived, one of the
overwhelming comments that I have received in my role as
commissioner in Texas from current sponsors and entities that
would be interested in becoming sponsors in terms of
implementing this program has been the overwhelming burden of
the paperwork requirements. That has been a deterrent to some
entities in terms of being able to enroll and to process the
information.
If confirmed, my commitment would be to look at that to see
what we can do to make it easier and more user-friendly and to
add a level of flexibility to our programs that is now missing,
but also, concurrently, to ensure that if we do that, we
maintain a high level of integrity in the program. So my
commitment to you is that absolutely, I would be more than
happy to look into this.
Senator Harkin. Thank you.
Last, on the WIC program, I was heartened that Secretary
Veneman assured the Appropriations Committee that the
Department would be monitoring spending in the WIC program to
ensure that there is no reduction in the number of eligible
women, infants, and children served. Again, I hope that you
will continue to give us your thoughts and suggestions on how
we can expand the WIC program to serve those in need, and I
hope that will be a priority of yours in your new position.
Mr. Bost. Absolutely, Senator.
Senator Harkin. Finally, Senators Dole and McGovern have
proposed what I call an international school lunch program. It
has received a lot of publicity, it has been widely supported,
and I think it is a great concept. I think others on the
committee have been supporting it on a bipartisan basis. I
think we are going to be feeling our way forward as to exactly
how we implement the legislation or how we can get the
legislation through and how we can move ahead in this area. But
I think it could be a wonderful thing for the United States to
take the lead in getting other producing nations involved in
providing the commodities for Third World countries. I think
this could act as a great magnet to get kids out of work
places, reducing the incidence of child labor around the world
and getting these kids into school.
When you think about it, while we spend a very small part
of our disposable income on food in this country--less than 10
percent, something like that. In some Third World countries, 50
to 60 percent and more of their disposable income goes for
food. So while giving a free breakfast or a free lunch to a
student in this country might not save the family a great deal
of money because we spend so little of our disposable income on
food, one nutritious meal for a child in a Third World country
not only helps that child in terms of the child's own nutrition
and health and education, but it saves the family a lot of
money. So again, I think it can be a great economic incentive
for families to get their kids into school, also, because a lot
of the kids bring home money from working in child labor. If we
could replace some of that income with food, then, I think
there would be less reticence on the part of families to let
the kids out of the workplaces and get them into school.
I tell you all that because I do not know what role you
will play in that, and I do not know what role the Department
of Agriculture is going to play in it; but I hope that you will
take a look at it and become aware of the legislation that is
pending and give us your best thoughts and suggestions as Under
Secretary as to how we might use the Department of Agriculture
to help stimulate this and get it moving around the world.
I hope you will take a good look at it and give us your
best thoughts on that.
Mr. Bost. Absolutely, Senator. I would be more than happy
to do that.
Senator Harkin. Thank you.
Mr. Hawks, last year, the General Accounting Office called
for more effective USDA enforcement of the Packers and
Stockyards Act. That included better teamwork of lawyers and
economists, plus assigning more lawyers to handle the
investigation. The Appropriations Committee last year put in
more money specifically for stronger Packers and Stockyards Act
enforcement. That was in last year's appropriations bill.
My question is will you make sure that USDA steps up and
increases their Packers and Stockyards Act enforcement?
Mr. Hawks. Yes, Senator. If confirmed, it is my intent to
ensure that we enforce every law, every regulation that is in
existence with all haste.
Senator Harkin. There is a great deal of concern out my
way, at least, and I think maybe in other parts of the country,
about concentration, and the lack of markets for our farmers.
Also, we are not getting enough information out on mandatory
price reporting. We passed the legislation on that, but for
some reason, we are still not getting the information out to
farmers. I do not know if that law is being enforced adequately
enough.
These are the reasons why we really have to focus on this.
We put the money in, and I just hope that you will step up the
enforcement even more than it was a year ago.
Mr. Hawks. Senator, I have the same concerns that you have
about those issues. Being a farmer myself, I understand the
need for adequate price discovery, and I also understand the
need for transparency in the reporting process. But I had said
before you came in that it is my intent to fix the mandatory
price reporting program.
Senator Harkin. Good for you. I look forward to working
with you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. We are on the same wavelength. I peppered Mr.
Hawks with the same questions--but he has affirmed it again; he
has not changed his mind.
Mr. Hawks. You got it on the record twice.
The Chairman. Senator Stabenow.
Senator Stabenow. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good
morning. I appreciate your holding the hearing, and welcome to
our two nominees this morning.
I would like to first ask Mr. Bost--it is more a comment
than anything else. I want to talk with you for a moment about
the importance in Michigan--I represent the wonderful
agriculture community in Michigan. There has been a real
partnership as it relates to our farmers, our commodities,
through the purchase of many of our fruits and vegetables for
school lunch, and we are looking forward to continuing to
partner with the school breakfast program as well. I think it
has been one of the most positive ways that has brought the
agricultural community together with the nutritional needs of
children. I would hope that you would continue to aggressively
pursue that partnership.
Mr. Bost. Absolutely.
Senator Stabenow. We benefited recently in Michigan from
apples and cherries being purchased for school lunch, and this
year, our asparagus growers are very interested in the same
thing, so I will put a plug in for them.
But I think that the Bonus Purchase Program is very
important to continue and to expand upon because of the obvious
benefits both to children and to our farmers.
I do not know if you have any thoughts on that or if you
have taken a look at it. I know that FSA is directly involved
in that area, but anything that we can do that brings more of
our fresh fruits and vegetables and other products together
with the needs of families through the commodity programs and
the other areas in which you touch--as you said, you touch one
out of five people in the country; that is a pretty awesome
responsibility, and I think there is a very important part of
this that benefits both our farmers and the people who are in
need of nutritious food.
Mr. Bost. Thank you, Senator.
I am not familiar with all of the aspects of that program;
I have heard about some of them. But if confirmed, my
commitment is to, of course, look at continuing to strengthen
those partnerships and collaborations. We are interested in
doing all that we can do to improve the nutritional lives of
our children in this country, and of course, fruits and
vegetables are very, very important to that.
Senator Stabenow. Thank you.
Mr. Hawks, again regarding something that is critical in
Michigan, I just want to bring to your attention something that
I brought to the attention of the Secretary, and hopefully she
has talked with you or you will be talking about a real
challenge in Michigan, an animal disease that is devastating
Michigan, which is bovine TB. It is in our deer herds, and it
is an extremely serious issue and is, as you may be aware,
being transferred to our cattle. I would hope that you could
work with us to eradicate this disease. Obviously, it is a
long-term issue, but there are both short-term as well as long-
term issues on research, and working with Michigan State
University, there has been a very aggressive level at the State
level regarding the issue of bovine TB.
This is an extremely serious issue for our State, and I
would like to know if you are aware of it at this point and if
you have any thoughts as to how we might work together on it.
Mr. Hawks. Yes, Senator. I am looking forward to working
with you on that issue. I have been apprised of it, and I would
like to share with you some of my past experiences with
eradication programs.
In my earlier years as a farmer and a cattleman, I had some
herds that were infected with brucellosis. They were crossbred
animals that I had gotten out of Texas that infected my herd--
yes, Texas--and I was having to corral those cattle in August.
For those of you who know anything about corralling Brahma
cattle in August, it is not good in Mississippi. I will share
with you the fact that on the day we were out there getting
them up, I told the guys who worked for me: ``Life is too short
to do this. We are going to get out of the cattle business.''
I understand the need for eliminating all diseases in
cattle, and I do look forward to working with you.
Senator Stabenow. I look forward to working with you. We do
not want our folks getting out of the business, though.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Hawks. I do not want your people out of business,
either.
Senator Stabenow. I would certainly invite you to come to
Michigan at some point and meet with folks. We have had entire
dairy herds that have had to be put down as a result of this.
It is a real challenge for us in Michigan and one that we need
to partner with you on.
Mr. Hawks. Thank you, and I look forward to working with
you.
Senator Stabenow. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Senator Conrad.
Senator Conrad. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to ask Mr. Hawks, have there been any steps
proposed that you are aware of to deal with hoof and mouth, or
foot and mouth as some call it now, that have been rejected?
Mr. Hawks. Any----
Senator Conrad. Are there any steps that have been
proposed, aggressive steps, to prevent hoof and mouth, or foot
and mouth, from spreading to this country? Are there any
proposals that to your knowledge have so far been rejected?
Mr. Hawks. Senator, not to my knowledge. Any specifics, I
would be delighted to visit with you on that if confirmed. But
I am not personally aware of any steps that have been rejected.
Do you mean rejected by APHIS and the science community?
Senator Conrad. Rejected by the administrators at USDA,
those in charge at USDA--any proposals that have been made by
staff or by credible outside groups to more aggressively deal
with foot and mouth, or hoof and mouth, that have been
rejected.
Mr. Hawks. Not to my knowledge. I am not saying there have
not been, but I have not had the opportunity to nor have I had
access to all the inner workings there. As you are probably
familiar, in a consulting capacity, I am only there to gather
information, so I have not had the opportunity to see that.
Senator Conrad. Have you participated in meetings on the
question of steps to be taken to deal with a potential spread?
Mr. Hawks. Not exactly. I visited one--we had one session
where a working group was in, and the two presenters made their
presentations, but when they broke into the smaller groups, I
was not there. It may have been in that environment, but there
is nothing that I am personally aware of.
Senator Conrad. The reason I raise the question is that I
have been told that there have been proposals made, either at a
staff level or by credible outside groups, as to additional
steps to be taken and that some of those have been rejected. I
would like to know if that is accurate, what the proposals have
been, and maybe you could provide to the committee a list of
the proposals that have been made to deal with hoof and mouth,
or foot and mouth--I grew up knowing it was ``hoof and mouth''
and now it has somehow morphed into ``foot and mouth''--I would
like to know the proposals that have been made by staff and by
outside groups and what the disposition of all those proposals
have been and the reasons for it. That is, what have the
recommendations been, and what has been the disposition of
those proposals and the rationale. If there are some that have
been overturned, there may be a good reason for it, but I would
like to know that.
I say this because I think we have an enormous
responsibility here. I think every member of this committee
feels it. The danger is so acute--in reading an analysis of how
easily this can spread, and when you think about how open our
market is and you think of all the going back and forth there
is between our country and Europe--I am told that this can be
in the intestinal tract of a person and be there for several
days and be transmitted in that way. It does not affect the
person or the animal necessarily, but it can be transmitted
just in that way. People who have been on farms--when I have
been in Europe, I have, at least for part of the time, been on
farms--it is very, very easy for this to be transmitted, and
the consequences are so staggering if this were to come to our
country and spread--as I know you appreciate, and I know every
member of this committee appreciates.
I would very much like it if you could provide that.
Mr. Hawks. Yes, Senator, I would be happy to get the
information that is there, and if you have any specifics that
you would like to share with me at a later time to help me in
my investigation of that, I would certainly appreciate that.
Senator Conrad. All right.
Mr. Hawks. Thank you.
Senator Conrad. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Conrad.
Senator Harkin.
Senator Harkin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am sorry, Mr. Hawks. I had one other area that I wanted
to cover with you.
We have some critically important Federal animal disease
facilities in Ames, Iowa--the National Animal Disease Center,
the Center for Veterinary Biologics, and the National
Veterinary Services Laboratory--in fact, Secretary Veneman just
visited the National Animal Disease Center last Friday. Apropos
of what Senator Conrad was just saying, this country has become
keenly aware of what could happen here and the costs and
problems that can occur because of animal diseases.
I do not know how many billions of dollars Great Britain
has lost now, but it is in the billions, and Europe also--
enormous sums of money. It can also affect human health as
well, in terms of BSE--not foot and mouth, but BSE.
These facilities without a doubt need upgrading. They are
out-of-date. Many of the buildings are over 50 years old, and
quite frankly, the facilities themselves may actually present a
great risk in terms of the kinds of things they are dealing
with there and how out-of-date they are.
A highly respected international peer review group that was
created by USDA to look at the draft report on what should be
done indicated that the need to move forward was--and I use the
word that they use--urgent, should be considered an emergency,
that the inadequacy of some of the facilities is astounding,
that there is a severe vulnerability--a severe vulnerability.
This facility deals with some of the most toxic pathogens,
some of the most virulent pathogens known to humankind, and yet
they are not really that secure. Current studies are restricted
that the status quo is not an option. This is all out of that
report.
This peer review group indicated that the improvements
would facilitate United States animal exports which could
presently be at some risk because of the poor quality of the
existing facilities.
Will you carefully review this situation and be prepared to
support the action and funding necessary to upgrade these badly
outdated facilities?
Mr. Hawks. Yes, Senator. I am aware of the situation there
at Ames and understand that that is a joint ARS and APHIS
facility out there, and I look forward to working with you and
members of this committee as we move forward with that. I am
looking forward to going out there and having the opportunity
to visit those facilities.
Senator Harkin. You have not been there yet?
Mr. Hawks. No, sir, I have not.
Senator Harkin. Well, I urge you to go out and take a look
at those facilities. I think you will see with your own eyes
that there is a campus facility out there. The Federal
Government has this land, and it can be--I do not know what the
proper word is--a good perimeter can be put around it. It can
be made very secure. As you know, they did incinerate and
dispose of the carcasses--well, they actually disposed of all
the sheep that came out of New England that were brought there
for disposal. I went out to view that myself, and I am not an
expert in these areas, but it does not take too much of a
trained eye to see that this may have been OK 50 or 60 years
ago, but it is not for the new century.
Mr. Hawks. I will assure you that that is a priority issue
with APHIS.
Senator Harkin. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Harkin.
For the record, the committee's concern that has been
expressed by Senator Conrad and Senator Harkin's last comments
about foot and mouth disease is profound, and of course, we
called Secretary Veneman over for a briefing--it was not an
open hearing, but it was an opportunity for her to bring us up-
to-date--and we may want to do that again. But I appreciate
that with you aboard, that will be helpful.
As we all know, to this point, the Secretary alone has been
confirmed and is there by herself, and we are hopeful that
staff can be supplemented by yourselves and by others.
Let me just say that the committee offers an invitation to
members with additional questions to offer those, and I hope
they will be submitted by the end of the day today so that you
can respond as rapidly as possible.
I will work with the distinguished ranking member for an
appropriate time for the committee to consider these
nominations. It is our intention--and that was the purpose of
the hearing and the intrusion on the credit hearing, and we
thank those who are going to testify for their indulgence,
because this is important business to have the administration
filled out with nominees as they come.
So we thank you very much for coming and for your
forthcoming responses, and we thank committee members for
engaging in this dialog.
The Chairman. This portion of our hearing is concluded.
[Whereupon, at 10:15 a.m., the nominations hearing was
concluded.]
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A P P E N D I X
May 16, 2001
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May 16, 2001
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QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
May 16, 2001
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