[House Hearing, 106 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
H. RES. 431 AND H. RES. 429
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
THURSDAY, MARCH 9, 2000
__________
Serial No. 106-140
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on International Relations
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.house.gov/
international--relations
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
66-730 CC WASHINGTON : 2000
COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, New York, Chairman
WILLIAM F. GOODLING, Pennsylvania SAM GEJDENSON, Connecticut
JAMES A. LEACH, Iowa TOM LANTOS, California
HENRY J. HYDE, Illinois HOWARD L. BERMAN, California
DOUG BEREUTER, Nebraska GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American
DAN BURTON, Indiana Samoa
ELTON GALLEGLY, California MATTHEW G. MARTINEZ, California
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey
CASS BALLENGER, North Carolina ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey
DANA ROHRABACHER, California SHERROD BROWN, Ohio
DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois CYNTHIA A. McKINNEY, Georgia
EDWARD R. ROYCE, California ALCEE L. HASTINGS, Florida
PETER T. KING, New York PAT DANNER, Missouri
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio EARL F. HILLIARD, Alabama
MARSHALL ``MARK'' SANFORD, South BRAD SHERMAN, California
Carolina ROBERT WEXLER, Florida
MATT SALMON, Arizona STEVEN R. ROTHMAN, New Jersey
AMO HOUGHTON, New York JIM DAVIS, Florida
TOM CAMPBELL, California EARL POMEROY, North Dakota
JOHN M. McHUGH, New York WILLIAM D. DELAHUNT, Massachusetts
KEVIN BRADY, Texas GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
RICHARD BURR, North Carolina BARBARA LEE, California
PAUL E. GILLMOR, Ohio JOSEPH CROWLEY, New York
GEORGE RADANOVICH, California JOSEPH M. HOEFFEL, Pennsylvania
JOHN COOKSEY, Louisiana
THOMAS G. TANCREDO, Colorado
Richard J. Garon, Chief of Staff
Kathleen Bertelsen Moazed, Democratic Chief of Staff
Hillel Weinberg, Senior Professional Staff Member and Counsel
Marilyn C. Owen, Staff Associate
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Markup of H. Res. 431, expressing support for humanitarian
assistance to the Republic of Mozambique....................... 1
Markup of H. Res. 429, expressing the sense of the House of
Representatives concerning the participation of the extremist
FPO in the Government of Austria............................... 5
APPENDIX
Prepared statements:
The Honorable Benjamin A. Gilman, a Representative in Congress
from New York and Chairman, Committee on International
Relations concerning H. Res 431................................ 18
The Honorable Marcos G. Namashulua, Ambassador Extraordinary and
Plenipotentiary, of the Republic of Mozambique................. 19
The Honorable Edward R. Royce, a Representative in Congress from
California and Chairman, Subcommittee on Africa................ 20
The Honorable Earl F. Hilliard, a Representative in Congress from
Alabama........................................................ 21
The Honorable Benjamin A. Gilman, concerning H. Res. 429......... 23
The Honorable Matt Salmon, a Representative in Congress from
Arizona........................................................ 24
Bills and Amendments:
H. Res. 431...................................................... 25
Amendment to H. Res. 431offered by Mr. Meeks, a Representative in
Congress from New York......................................... 29
H. Res. 429...................................................... 30
H. RES. 431 AND H. RES. 429
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THURSDAY, MARCH 9, 2000
House of Representatives,
Committee on International Relations,
Washington, DC.
Chairman Gilman [presiding]. We will now consider H. Res.
431, relating to humanitarian emergency in Mozambique. The
Chair lays the resolution before the Committee. The clerk will
report the title of the resolution.
Ms. Bloomer. H. Res. 431, a resolution expressing the
support for humanitarian assistance to the Republic of
Mozambique.
Chairman Gilman. This resolution was not referred to
Subcommittee.
Without objection, the clerk will read the preamble and
operative language of the resolution, that order for amendment.
Ms. Bloomer. Whereas on February 9, 2000 the Southern
African nations of Botswana, Mozambique, South Africa, Zambia
and Zimbabwe----
Chairman Gilman. Without objection the resolution is
considered as having been read. It is open to amendment at any
point.
The bill was introduced this morning. It was not referred
to Subcommittee. The Chair appreciates the willingness of the
Subcommittee on Africa to waive its consideration of this
matter.
The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr.
Meeks.
Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Today I urge the House International Relations Committee to
pass H. Res. 431, a resolution which expresses the support of
humanitarian assistance to the Republic of Mozambique.
First, Mr. Chairman, I wish to commend the Chair of the
Africa Subcommittee, Mr. Royce, for agreeing to waive the
Africa Subcommittee's jurisdiction.
I also commend Mr. Campbell and his staff for assisting
with the drafting of this resolution.
I wish also to commend Mr. Payne and Mr. Gejdenson, and
last but certainly not least you, Mr. Chairman, for your
cooperation and the cooperation of your staff.
Mr. Chairman, for the past 2 weeks the world has watched
with great anguish as the people of the Republic of Mozambique
cling to whatever they can to escape raging flooding waters.
The storms that have ravaged Mozambique are the worst the
Southern African region has seen in more than 50 years. The
nations of Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia and South Africa have
also experienced national emergencies from the rainy season of
flooding. However, Mozambique bore the brunt of the storm that
is still threatened by floodwaters from neighboring countries
which are forced to open their dams to ease the pressure on
these structures.
In the southern third of Mozambique, virtually all the
primary roads, bridges, electric grid facilities, and clean
water wells have been destroyed. Many buildings and homes that
were built along the fertile flood plains of the Save and the
Limpopo Rivers will need to be relocated or rebuilt.
Mr. Chairman, I find it is ironic that a nation that has
experienced much success over the past 8 years to reform its
government and economy, only to suffer the economic disaster
that these floods are causing.
Mozambique held its second multi-party elections in 1999
and it has privatized over 800 former government-owned
enterprises. For the first time in a long time, or as long as
anyone can remember, Mozambique did not even request
international food aid. Additionally, because Mozambique's
government's track record and economic performance has been so
strong, the nation qualified for the World Bank and IMF highly-
indebted poor-countries program.
With the floodwaters comes the threat of water-borne
diseases and other public health problems. There have already
been outbreaks of dysentery reported in many towns and villages
without potable water.
Another problem comes from land mines. Mozambique has
thousands of semi-buoyant plastic land mines that may have been
uncovered by the rising waters. These new areas must be located
and demarcated to avoid the unnecessary damage that can happen
to the population of Mozambique.
Mr. Chairman, the pace of international mobilization to
help the Mozambiquans has sped up dramatically over the past 10
days. The government of South Africa and the Clinton
Administration should be commended for their efforts to deploy
military assets and emergency assistance to this country.
In the midst of destruction and great human tragedy, who
can forget how we witnessed the miracle of life in Mozambique,
as we watched a mother clinging to life on a limb give life to
a child?
Additionally, a vast quantity of the country's crops were
spared from the floodwaters. If the international community can
get seeds and tools to the right areas, Mozambique's 2000
harvest yield should be available to help with the emergency
food shortage.
We must prepare to do all we can to assist Mozambique get
back on track so that her hard-fought economic and political
reforms are not washed away with the floodwaters.
I urge you and my colleagues to support the people of
Mozambique.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Meeks.
Any other Member seeking recognition?
Mr. Payne.
Mr. Payne. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let me commend Mr. Meeks for this resolution and you for
allowing this to bypass the Subcommittee and Mr. Royce and Mr.
Gejdenson's support also.
I would just like to commend the gentleman from New York
and say that I strongly support this resolution. As he's
indicated, Mozambique has been very hard-hit with this
devastating flood. Mozambique being one of the poorest
countries in Africa has, as it's been mentioned, shown great
growth over the past seven or 8 years since it has been moving
toward market economy and privatization.
The fact is that Mozambique has had democratic elections,
its second elections. It is one of the few countries that took
a guerrilla movement, the Ranamo people, and made them into a
political party.
I think if we go back through history we know that
Mozambique probably would have been a supporter of the United
States through the last 50 years. But, as you know, being a
Portuguese colony, the NATO forces and U.S. supported the
colonial powers who suppressed the independence movement of the
African countries of which Mozambique and Angola and Guinea
Bissau and others were a part. So there is a history that we
should know of some of the problems in this country, 20 years
of war against the Portuguese colonialists and then a civil war
for another 15 or 20, has really taken a toll, like I said
indirectly.
I think that our hand is there because of the Cold War
period, and much of the battles were fought in Africa.
So I would certainly strongly support this resolution.
I would also like to say that I am disappointed that there
was a lack of response, a tardiness on the part of the
Administration. I do recall the earthquakes in Turkey where
there was swift assistance from all over the world, and in
particular the U.S. teams went there to get people out. But
here it took several weeks before we could really get ourselves
mobilized to respond to this tragedy.
I would certainly urge us to support this. Also I have a
letter from the Mozambiquan ambassador to the U.S. where he is
asking for food and medical supplies and it is in excess of $65
million.
I will ask that it be entered into the record. Also a
statement from Mr. Earl Hilliard I would like to have that also
entered into the record if there's no opposition to it.
Chairman Gilman. Without objection.
Mr. Payne. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Payne.
Mr. Lantos.
Mr. Lantos. Mr. Chairman, I just want to take a moment
first to commend my friends, Mr. Meeks and Mr. Payne. I, of
course, fully support this resolution. I think it is eminently
appropriate that we give every conceivable assistance to the
long suffering people of Mozambique and I urge my colleagues to
support the resolution.
Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Lantos.
Mr. Rohrabacher.
Mr. Rohrabacher. I join with my friend Mr. Lantos in
commending Mr. Meeks and Mr. Payne, and support this
resolution.
These people are suffering and the bottom line is that we
represent a country that's supposed to have the highest ideals
and lead the way when people are suffering like this, and I am
very pleased with the leadership you've provided and am happy
to support you.
Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Rohrabacher.
Ms. Lee.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you and
Mr. Meeks for bringing up this resolution and would also like
to commend Mr. Meeks with regard to the details of the
resolution.
The fact that we were late in stepping up to the plate, I
think, should prompt us to move very quickly to look at the
ideas and suggestions from the Ambassador and other relief
agencies so that we can really redouble our efforts. I am
pleased that the resolution also calls for us to take the
international lead because we should. We've neglected Africa
for so long, and here we have an opportunity to be
international leaders in responding to such a devastating
disaster.
So thank you very much for giving us the opportunity to
vote on this and to work with you on it.
Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Ms. Lee.
Are any other Members seeking recognition?
I am pleased to announce my support for this resolution.
I want to thank the gentleman from New York, Mr. Meeks, for
his leadership in this measure, and also Chairman Royce and
Ranking Member Mr. Payne of the African Subcommittee for
introducing it.
It is important for our Congress to recognize the
devastating floods in Mozambique and the extraordinary trials
the people of that nation are undergoing.
When we saw television shots of them clinging to rooftops
in order to escape the rising flood tide, and then to have a
limited number of helicopters there to rescue the people, I
think focused our attention on the need to have international
assistance.
I am pleased that we finally did react, even belatedly, and
got some choppers in there and provided humanitarian supplies.
Our military is in and out of there now to help the people of
Mozambique. South Africa, the United Kingdom, France, and
Denmark also responded even though it was a bit late, but it
helped considerably and we are going to try to arouse the
interest of other nations to provide assistance.
I am particularly impressed with and thankful for the rapid
and effective assistance from the neighboring country of the
government of South Africa.
I hope that our foreign disaster specialists at USAID are
going to explore ways to further support regional disaster
response capabilities in Africa in the days ahead.
Is there any other Member seeking recognition?
I would also like to note that I've just been handed a note
that senior Administration officials will brief interested
Members on the situation in Mozambique this afternoon at 3 p.m.
in room 2255. That's this afternoon at 3 p.m. in room 2255.
Is there anyone else seeking recognition? If not, the
gentleman from California, Mr. Rohrabacher, is recognized to
make a motion.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Mr. Chairman, I move that the Chairman be
requested to seek consideration of the pending resolution on
the suspension calendar.
Chairman Gilman. The question is now on the motion by the
gentleman from California, Mr. Rohrabacher. All those in favor
of the motion, say aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
Chairman Gilman. Those opposed, say no.
[No response.]
Chairman Gilman. The ayes have it. The motion is agreed to.
Further proceedings on this measure will be postponed.
We will now proceed to H. Con. Res 315--I am sorry H. Res.
429.
Mr. Meeks. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Gilman. Yes, Mr. Meeks.
Mr. Meeks. Before we go on I have some technical amendments
that I had at the desk.
Chairman Gilman. I am sorry, we will vitiate the prior
action of the Committee. Mr. Meeks is recognized without
objection to offer a technical amendment.
Mr. Meeks. I believe the technical amendments have already
been distributed to the Members and I ask unanimous consent of
these amendments be considered en bloc.
Chairman Gilman. Without objection, the amendments are
being considered en bloc.
All in favor of the technical amendments signify in the
usual manner.
[Chorus of ayes.]
Chairman Gilman. Opposed?
[No response.]
Chairman Gilman. The technical amendments are agreed upon.
Mr. Meeks. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Gilman. We will now return to the motion by Mr.
Rohrabacher to seek consideration of the measure on the
suspension calendar.
All in favor signify in the usual manner.
[Chorus of ayes.]
Chairman Gilman. Opposed?
[No response.]
Chairman Gilman. So be it. Mr. Rohrabacher's motion is
agreed to.
We will now consider H. Res. 429 relating to the new
Austrian government. The Chair lays the resolution before the
Committee. The Clerk will report the title of the resolution.
Ms. Bloomer. H. Res. 429, a resolution expressing the sense
of the House of Representatives concerning the participation of
the extremist FPO and the government of Austria.
Chairman Gilman. Without objection the preamble and
operative language of the resolution will be read in that order
for amendment. The Clerk will read.
Ms. Bloomer. Whereas the extremist, racist and xenophobic
FPO has entered into a coalition agreement and is participating
in the new government of Austria. Whereas the long time----
Chairman Gilman. The resolution is considered as read,
without objection.
The resolution is in the original jurisdiction of the Full
Committee and I now recognize the gentleman from California,
the original sponsor of the measure, Mr. Lantos, to introduce
the resolution to the Committee.
Mr. Lantos. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Let me first express my appreciation to you for not only
being an original cosponsor of my resolution but of having
significantly improved the nature of the resolution.
I want to thank also my friend, Mr. Crowley, who has played
such a pivotal role in bringing this resolution before our
Committee and I hope in a day or so before the House.
We are dealing with one of the most remarkable political
developments of Europe since the end of the Second World War.
The European Union, a group of democratic, friendly, free
and open societies has seen fit to express in the strongest
possible terms its disapproval of a neo-Nazi, racist,
xenophobic political party being part of the new coalition
government of Austria.
I thought long and hard, Mr. Chairman, of how I could
relate the leader of this party to the American political
scene, and it is not easy. But the closest I can come to is
David Duke. Because Joerg Haider is a very successful David
Duke. While David Duke is viewed as a fringe character on the
American political scene with his sickeningly racist and
xenophobic and extremist views, Haider was able to obtain 27
percent of the vote in free and open and democratic elections
in Austria; and the more recent public opinion polls show that
were the elections to be held today he would be likely to
receive a higher percentage of the vote.
Haider is typical of the new generation of political
leadership of the far-right. When David Duke talks about--no
longer, he no longer talks about the white citizens council--he
talks about European Americans, the European Americans who have
been so put upon by recent trends in this country which have
moved our country toward some degree of recognition of racial
justice.
Haider is a charismatic, articulate, sophisticated European
political leader. His party is included in the Governing
Coalition, and our resolution merely expresses our concern that
Austria now has a government in which one of the two major
political parties is an extremist, racist, neo-fascist group.
Now Haider, shortly after this government was founded,
removed himself from the political leadership of this party,
which is one of his most recent clever moves because he will
want to disassociate himself from the very harsh economic
measures the new Austrian government will have to institute.
As a matter of fact, Haider's own political leadership
indicates that he plans to run for Chancellor of Austria as
soon as those elections will be open, and they may be open very
soon because this coalition may collapse.
I cannot emphasize the importance of the Congress of the
United States going on record expressing its concerns with
respect to this development. There is an enormous difference
between Germany and Austria in facing their Nazi past. The
Germans faced up to their Nazi past forthrightly, courageously,
and have undertaken a program in Germany's public schools of
teaching the history of the Hitler period and recognizing the
tremendous degree of responsibility that the new democratic
German governments face in living down that past.
None of that happened in Austria. Austria was extremely
successful in portraying herself as Hitler's first victim when
in fact Austria was Hitler's first ally.
I remember as a boy in Budapest seeing newsreels of
Hitler's troops marching into Austria triumphantly and being
greeted by hundreds of thousands of joyful Austrians throwing
countless bouquets of flowers at the feet of the Germany Nazi
troops, who came in as friends and allies and were greeted with
delight.
It will be necessary for Austria in the coming years to
come face-to-face with its Nazi past. My resolution commends
the 14 nations of the European Union and some nations that are
not part of the European Union, like Norway and Canada, for
recognizing the horrendous danger this philosophy of neo-
Nazism, xenophobism, racism represents for Europe.
David Duke is not successful in this country because we
have a history of 220 years of trying to build slowly a
democratic society. As a matter of fact, one way of looking at
American history is to say that we have been engaged for 220
years in closing the hypocrisy gap. When we initially declared
all men are created equal, some of the people who said that had
slaves and it took us a civil war to get beyond that.
When we said all men are created equal, we never even
looked at women. They were not part of the scene. It took us
generations to recognize that not only all men are created
equal, but all women are created equal, and we are still a long
way from making a reality of the phenomenally impressive and
deep and moving statements of our founding documents.
Now Austria does not share a democratic past, and with this
painful election where 27 percent of the Austrian voters voted
for the party of a man who declares Hitler's labor policies to
be admirable, who expresses his admiration for the Waffen SS,
one of the most sickening military units of Europe in the 2nd
World War, it is important for the Congress to express its
views.
Before closing, Mr. Chairman, I feel obliged to mention
that one of our colleagues, a strong supporter of the
resolution, Mr. Salmon, has expressed the thought that perhaps
serious support against the Haider regime may be made part of
this resolution.
I obviously share his views that it is indicative of the
nature of the Haider regime that the only government that
expressed support for it is the dictatorial government of Assad
in Syria.
Let me say my resolution enjoys the support of some of the
leading Republican Members of our body including yourself, Mr.
Chairman, and I ask my colleagues to support the resolution
unanimously, and I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Lantos. I commend the
gentleman from California and express my appreciation to him
for inviting me to join with him in sponsoring this important
resolution.
H.R. 429 places the House on record regarding our concerns
over the participation of the extremist freedom party, the FPO,
in the government of Austria that was recently formed. The
former leader and founder of the FPO, Joerg Haider, has
propelled the FPO into the mainstream of Austrian politics by
appealing to some of the insecurity of Austria's people.
He also capitalized on a large measure of dissatisfaction
with the political status quo that was represented by Austria's
traditional political establishment among the Austrian
electorate.
It is important, therefore, that we express our strong
condemnation to many of the statements that Haider has
expressed, his demagogic attempts to stir up resentment of
Austria's largest immigrant community, and his apparent
sympathies for the aspects of Austria's tragic Nazi past.
This measure I think is balanced. It is aimed at the
government of Austria and not at the people of Austria, with
many of whom we've enjoyed a close and enduring friendship.
While we are expressing our concern, we are withholding any
final judgment with regard to the direction the new government
will choose to lead Austria. It calls upon our own government
to make clear our concerns and to carefully monitor Austrian
policies so that if further action on our part becomes
necessary we will be able to take them without delay.
Accordingly I ask the support of our colleagues for H. Res.
429 so that there is no misunderstanding of the depth of our
concern expressed to Austrian officials.
Mr. Crowley.
Mr. Crowley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the
opportunity to speak on Mr. Lantos' resolution. First let me
thank my colleague, Mr. Lantos, for his words before about our
involvement and to let you know and express to you how
important and how delighted we were to work with you on this
resolution.
As someone who has been a victim, himself and his family of
the atrocities of the Nazi regime and what it meant not only in
Germany but throughout Europe, and to others like you who live
today in many respects to see that governments like that do not
develop again, I know how important this resolution is to you
and to so many other Members of this House.
Mr. Chairman, everyone on the Committee has heard the
comments made by Joerg Haider and the leaders of the Freedom
Party of Austria. Comments praising Hitler's policies,
statements praising the Waffen SS, assertions consistently
blaming problems in Austria including low employment, high
taxes, and the spread of disease on immigrant populations. His
views are clear, his intentions are known, and his attempts to
apologize each time he makes an offensive statement have grown
as tiresome to me as his hateful statements.
Although Mr. Haider has resigned his position, his party,
the Freedom Party, remains in a coalition government, albeit
frail, in Austria, with the People's Party. This must not be
accepted.
That is why I've joined with Congressman Lantos, Chairman
Gilman, Ranking Member Gejdenson, and a number of my colleagues
in introducing House Resolution 429. It is not only appropriate
but also necessary that the U.S. Congress put itself on record
as disapproving of this government.
I thank the Chairman and I urge all my colleagues to
support this important resolution.
Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Crowley.
Any other Members seeking recognition?
Mr. Rohrabacher.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Let me suggest that we should move forward
in Congress with a little more caution than I hear today.
First of all, Austria has a democratic tradition and we are
talking about a democratic election. No one is suggesting that
the election that Mr. Haider and his party received a certain
significant part of the vote was anything more or less than a
democratic election.
We do not like some of the things Mr. Haider has said, we
do not like some of the policies of that party. Yet we have
this incredible response to him winning an election or getting
that part of the electorate in Austria.
There are dictatorships around the world that we are not
mentioning. You've all heard me talk about communist China over
and over again, yet they're our strategic partners. I do not
hear the outrage that there's genocide going on in Tibet, and
Mr. Lantos obviously is a very active person in the human
rights community.
And yes, I have joined with Mr. Lantos time and time again
when there was evidence of anti-semitism that I believed
warranted not only our concern but our active opposition to in
Russia, when Mr. Lantos presented a resolution about some of
the anti-semitic statements made by some of the new leaders in
Russia. Not only did I join him, but I asked if we could
strengthen that resolution by putting meat into it rather than
simply having a condemnation.
Mr. Lantos also brought to our attention what was going on
in Hungary, in which I supported him.
These were clear examples of anti-semitism.
I am not sure that what we have here today is a clear
example of anti-semitism. We have Mr. Haider who has made some,
I would again say despicable statements about, well, the Nazis
at least made the trains run on time type of thing. And, by the
way, let me just say as far as I am concerned the SS were the
worst type of perverts and sadists in the history of humankind.
I have got no problem condemning them. Let us remember those
people in Austria; however, Mr. Lantos' statement was correct.
Those people were Hitler's allies and they have yet to come to
grips with their past. They have yet to do what the Germans
did, which is fess up, hey, our people were in the SS.
My suggestion is I think Mr. Haider made that statement,
and my guess is he has properly apologized for that statement.
It is obvious whoever hears it should jump on anybody's case
for saying something like that, and I certainly do not hold
back in condemnation of that statement. But again, I think he
apologized.
There are lots of people, let me say, that I have heard
over the years, say good things about Mao Tse Tung on the
liberal side of the spectrum. I cannot tell you how many times
I've been at meetings and been in television shows and been in
the public debate and heard liberal Democrats saying, ``Well at
least Mao Tse Tung did this,'' or ``At least Stalin did that,''
or ``At least Fidel Castro's provided some kind of healthcare
for his people,'' totally ignoring the incredible human rights
abuses that have gone on under those regimes. I have to equate
those two a little bit in my mind in terms of anybody who said
something good about Mao or Stalin or Fidel Castro--do I
automatically call them a communist? No, I do not.
Sometimes I call them aside and say, you know, you really
should take a look at what the Sandinistas did or that Castro
did. These are dedicated people, the communists and the Nazis,
to things that we do not believe in.
But again, you have to use caution because people are,
again, human beings and Austria has to come to grips with its
Nazi past. It should not even be in their minds that the SS was
anything but, as I say, perverts and sadists of the worst kind.
But let me say this again. I do not believe that neo-Nazism
is what we are talking about here. If it were, I would be the
first one in supporting this resolution. I do not believe
that's what we are talking about here.
There have been a couple of statements by Mr. Haider that
sound bad, and he apologized for them, but I do not believe
that he is a neo-Nazi and the people over there in Austria do
not believe he's a neo-Nazi either. They would not have voted
for him if he were neo-Nazi.
But I think that what he is concerned about, what his
party's been talking about, is the threat especially of illegal
immigration into their country. I think that's the truth of the
matter.
He got his votes because his party was the one party that
stepped up to talk about illegal immigration. I have been
called a racist skinhead in my district by liberal Democrats
because it is my position that we should not provide benefits
to illegal immigrants. I am not a racist skinhead. I am not a
neo-Nazi. I am not any of those things. I have love in my heart
for all our fellow human beings, and I think that racism, as I
say when I see it, demands that we all step forward and condemn
it.
But I've been called those names, so why am I surprised now
to hear those same refrains about Austria's 8 million people.
In the blink of an eye you could have a total change in their
society. People who are totally different culturally and
different nationally, racially and every other way, coming into
that country. Now they're different people who will control
Austria, unless they control their borders, and that's what
those people are concerned about. That is, I believe, a
legitimate concern.
Now tell me if I am being wrong or a racist for saying
that. I think we have a concern in this country that we had at
least 10 million illegal immigrants pouring into this country,
and we have a population of 225 to 250 million people.
So I think we've got to be a little cautious here in saying
that someone, simply because they're involved in an effort to
try to prevent illegal immigration into a country of 8 million
people, is automatically a racist or automatically a neo-Nazi.
I think that that concern is what's foremost in the mind of
those voters.
Let me just say, I've met Haider twice. The guy came in, he
was in the Austrian embassy, he was touring town, and he was
ushered into my office to say hello. I found him to be a
personable human being. Then again, as Mr. Lantos so amply
demonstrated by using the comparison to David Duke, someone who
didn't know David Duke might, just with a 15 minute meeting,
might think he's a good guy, too. But the fact is that David
Duke is a racist and a phony and I've spent considerable
personal capital in the Republican party trying to counter
David Duke and any in-roads he would have into our party. So
maybe Mr. Lantos is right about that.
Mr. Lantos have you met Haider at all and talked to him?
Mr. Lantos. If my good friend will yield?
Mr. Rohrabacher. I will be happy to yield.
Mr. Lantos. Let me first pay tribute to my friend from
California, who has stood with me on all of the issues from
Tibet to the Soviet Union. We have been colleagues and comrades
in arms and I appreciated that.
I think the David Duke analogy is not a bad analogy. If
David Duke is ushered into somebody's office and is on his good
behavior and you know nothing about him, he's a well dressed,
articulate, intelligent and very pleasant person.
If you know what David Duke stands for, then you become
revolted. Even though David Duke may apologize for his
statements subsequently, then he says it again in a different
form, and yet again apologizes, which of course has been
Haider's pattern.
What I really would like to respond to in my colleague's
observations is the early remark that these were free and open
and democratic elections. Adolf Hitler got a higher percentage
of the vote in free and open and democratic elections in
Germany.
It is not in our power to undo the results of free and open
and democratic elections. I respect the right of the Austrian
people to elect anybody they choose to any office. But I
reserve the right through Congress to express our views about
the kinds of people they have elected and the philosophies
those people represent.
Haider is a racist. His statements about people with a
different pigmentation from his are unprintable. He hates, he
hates blacks.
I am not concerned about Mr. Haider's anti-semitism. What I
am concerned about is his profound, deeply felt hatred along
all racial and religious lines. What I am concerned about is
that in a continent such as Europe, particularly Central and
Eastern Europe, where the veneer of civilization is paper thin
as we have seen it in the former Yugoslavia, ethnic and racial
and religious hatreds can be whipped up with tremendous ease.
This is what Haider has done. This is what members of his
political party have done. This is why Austrians who hardly
ever go out in the streets, tens of thousands of them, have
been demonstrating against this racist political party being
included in the new coalition government of Austria.
Now David Duke is sort of a bizarre and passing phenomenon
in this country. We do not expect David Duke to get 20 percent
of the vote in a general election in the United States, but
unless I am mistaken, David Duke ran for statewide office in
Louisiana and got a very respectable number of votes. I forget
now, maybe some of my colleagues can help me, how high that
vote was, but it was a frightening vote because it was a vote
for racism.
For the Congress of the United States not to express itself
on racism in its ugliest form when it manifests itself in
Europe while expressing itself on all of these issues in Tibet,
in Cuba, and everywhere else where we have totalitarian
governments or political parties that would like to get into
government, would be a very serious mistake.
I know this resolution will pass overwhelmingly. I would
only hope since my good friend has stood in the forefront of
fighting racism and religious intolerance and so many other
issues, he would see his way clear to join us in making this
vote unanimous.
I want to thank my friend for yielding.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Reclaiming my time, let me just say I
thank the Chairman for indulging us in this very good
discussion. I would like to see the quotes from Mr. Haider that
indicate the racism that you're talking about. I would look at
them. If someone could give me a white paper, a couple of pages
of things that indicate that he is indeed a racist and has said
racist type things, and if he has said too many racist things
who cares if he apologizes or not. It is reflecting his soul,
and I'd like to see that. That would have a lot to do with my
reaction.
Let me just say about David Duke, I spent a considerable
portion of my own campaign funds to donate to people who were
running against David Duke, as I know that the likes of David
Duke pollutes the whole debate in our country because he tries
to pretend he's a conservative, and he's not. I do not want him
around, and I want him defeated, because it does tend to create
a residue that's an evil residue.
Mr. Lantos. But if my friend will yield for another moment.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Yes.
Mr. Lantos. I would just say that I would not think of two
more similar people in outlook, attitude, philosophy on the
political scene globally than David Duke and Joerg Haider. They
are both highly presentable, highly attractive, highly
articulate, peddling philosophies of hate; and if my friend is
as strongly opposed to David Duke as I know he is, I would
think he would want to associate himself with our resolution.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Let me take a look at those quotes
because, again, from a distance what it appears to me is that
Mr. Haider has been speaking not as a racist, but as someone
who is speaking up against illegal immigration into his
country. With a country of eight million people, again, I think
that's a legitimate issue for people to think about in that
country.
Now whether or not Austria has come to grips with its Nazi
past, I think you're correct in that. I think they should, and
they need to. But that does not mean that the Austrian people,
unlike many other countries of the world, in fact most other
countries in the world, do not have a legitimate concern in
preventing massive illegal immigration into their country.
I do not know any country that doesn't control its borders
in that regard. People have high standards. Israel has very
high standards as to who they permit to immigrate into their
society. Other countries--we have a bad illegal immigration
problem, but we officially have high standards as to who
immigrates into our country.
So I'd like to see the racist statements you're talking
about that Haider made and I may well join you on the floor in
supporting your resolution then.
Mr. Crowley. Would the gentleman yield for----
Mr. Rohrabacher. I will yield back the balance of my time
to whoever wants the floor so they can have it.
Chairman Gilman. Mr. Sherman is next, and then I will
recognize Mr. Crowley.
Mr. Sherman.
Mr. Sherman. I think Mr. Haider's comments go well beyond
immigration policy. He opposes both legal and illegal
immigration. But beyond that, his comments are showing a
remarkable level of comfort with the Nazi institutions of
Austria's past--reason enough for us to be concerned and to
express the concerns in a resolution.
My colleague from California compares Haider or a Haider-
influenced government in Vienna with China and Beijing, and I
would simply say that in looking at developments around the
world we grade on the curve and we look at the history of the
country. China has never had a democratic government and if
they were to get one as democratic as the government in Vienna,
even today, that might be a reason for celebration.
But to see the government of Austria, which has been
democratic and has not been marred by public statements of
racism or public support for Nazi institutions of the past,
taking a step backward is something that we should comment on.
I think in other resolutions that we have passed, there are
a variety of times when we have passed resolutions praising
governments for democratic elections where there were a few
problems with those elections, but we compared that country to
its own past, not to Denmark or Canada. I think if you look at
this Austrian government, there is reason for us to express our
concern that this is a big step backward.
Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Sherman.
Mr. Crowley, without objection----
Mr. Crowley. Just a point. Thank you for yielding the time.
Regarding Mr. Rohrabacher's statement earlier. The point I
think I'd like to make is that a majority of the people of
Austria did not vote for the Freedom Party. In fact less than
30 percent, 27 percent, that means that over 70 percent voted
for one of the other parties. But they were unable to make a
government out of those parties; therefore the People's party,
it is my understanding, created a coalition government. Therein
lies the difference between maybe the threat of a David Duke in
this country and what has happened with Mr. Haider in the
parliamentary system in which Austria's tradition of democracy
has developed.
I think that's a statement that has to be made. In the
tradition of the European style of democracy--a parliamentary
system--it is possible that this can take place not only in
Austria but within other European countries as well; so I think
it is important for us to make a strong statement, as I think
it is important for the EU to speak out or any other democracy
to do the same thing when something like this has occurred.
I do not have a fear that Mr. Duke will come to power in
Louisiana or any other national office very soon, but I do have
fear of a tradition in Europe of anti-semitism, of racial
hatred growing again. That's what my concern is and that's why
I again applaud Mr. Lantos.
Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Crowley. If there are no
other Members----
Mr. Payne. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Gilman. Mr. Payne, I am sorry.
Mr. Payne. Yes, I would certainly like to associate myself
with the remarks of Mr. Lantos and others who have expressed
concern about the statements that have been made. In many
instances, there are all kinds of code words. You can be anti-
immigration, especially if the immigrants are of a different
religion or race. We even see some of that in Germany today.
Turks who have lived there for generations have had, as you
remember, some homes burned, and people were killed because
they were from Turkey.
So to use sort-of a code word, if you're against this
illegal immigration, many times that sends a signal. As you
know, Adolf Hitler came to power because Germany was in
disarray. Unemployment was high. He used the demagoging of a
group of people to say that they were their problems. This is
the same kind of thing being used by this gentleman.
I think that anyone who has positive things to say about
Adolf Hitler they are talking about a person who when the
Olympics were held in Berlin, refused Jesse Owens, one of the
greatest athletes the world has ever known. Adolf Hitler
refused to shake his hand when his hand was extended, and
refused to give him the medal because he was black, although he
broke all kinds of existing records.
So anyone who can see Hitler as anything positive, I think
they send signals. Code words are used even in our country
here.
So I wholeheartedly support the resolution, Mr. Lantos. I
think that we have to be concerned about neo-Nazism. I do not
see anywhere where the people of Austria have been condemned. I
think it was very carefully crafted so that we are not saying
what people should do internally.
So I certainly add my support, Mr. Lantos, and will
certainly let it be known. Thank you.
Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Payne.
If there are no other Members seeking recognition, the
gentleman from California, Mr. Rohrabacher is recognized to
offer a motion.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Mr. Chairman, I move that the Chairman be
requested to seek consideration of the pending resolution on
the suspension calendar.
Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Rohrabacher. The question
is now a motion. The gentleman from California, those in favor
of the motion signify by saying aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
Chairman Gilman. Those opposed, say no.
[No response.]
Chairman Gilman. The ayes have it. The motion is agreed to.
Further proceedings on this matter are postponed.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Mr. Chairman----
Chairman Gilman. The record will remain open for 1 week to
receive additional statements from Members, and in particular
the statement from Mr. Salmon will be received in the record.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Mr. Chairman, I have remarks by Mr. Royce
I'd like to submit for----
Chairman Gilman. Without objection, the remarks will be
entered into the record.
If there are no further requests, the Committee stands
adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 1:50 p.m. the Committee was adjourned.]
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A P P E N D I X
March 9, 2000
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